Saying “No” To On The Run Legislation
I’ve been having a hard time keeping up to date with other blogs recently, but I came across a noble crusade over on A Tangled Web today. David Vance is asking his readers to email their local MPs and urge them to vote against this legislation.
I’ve done it. Not because I want to explicitly stick one to the IRA, but because I believe the early release of all prisoners was a moment of madness Northern Ireland should never have to see repeated. “Murder is murder”, as the (wo)man said, and I won’t support legislation that hands known killers a Get Out Of Jail Free card.
Perhaps if the peace process had yielded results my views would be different. Let bygones be bygones and all that. But year on year the peace process is disappearing up it’s own backside with misguided policies that cosy up to terrorists while completely ignoring the ordinary people of Northern Ireland.
On a lighter note, I would support legislation to erect a “Terrorists Not Welcome Here” sign at all the major ports and airports. And I’d be more than happy for it to be bi/multi-lingual on this occasion!
If you have strong feelings about this issue, I’d urge you to fire across to ATW and read David’s article.
I was surprised and disappointed that you subscribe to this hypocritical and cynical *campaign*
The site as you should be aware has in recent times scorned child rape victims and persitently, to the point of obsession, mocked and abused victims of the violence here such as Peter McBride’s mother. Posts applauding, indeed urging sectarian attacks on Ahoghill Catholics were accepted. While ostensibly condemning violence from Loyalists, usually ina one line sentence, there were doxens of posts blaming the Whiterock trouble on the Police, the Belfast Telegraph, Peter Hain, the NIO and the BBC and the Parades Commission. The attitude of that site to violence is reprensible and the attitudes to racial attacks appalling. The Menezes murer was whooped with delight and as recently as yesterday was the subject of slavering bloodthirsty comment on this innocent victim, who happened not to be a white Ulster Protestant. The latter category appears to be the only victim recognised as such by the authors of this sham and I write that as one who would be identifed in that same way.
I wrote before that I would have more regard for those acclaiming the position of victims in the OTR case if they had had any history of working to attain peace or promoting an end to conflict. The site to which you refer patently does not - it is intent on self promotion of its bigoted obnoxious hate promoting view of the world. Dont give it credibility.
Well said Mr Levee. Victims interests should always come first. Unfortunatly the vote at Westminister tonight 7:00pm is expected to go in favour of OTRs with a majority of 50+.
I understand completely where you’re coming from on this one Jo. As a long-time ATW reader, I’m aware of some of their more controversial stances.
With regard to ATW, I often wonder if David and Andrew like anybody and what the criteria is for their approval?
However, on this occassion, I happen to agree that the “On The Run” issue is a step too far, and I’m also pleased to see affirmative action instead of their usual scathing criticism.
So, much as I understand your concerns over ATW in general, I hope this doesn’t obscure the main point that the OTR legislation is misguided at best, disrespectful and insulting to the ordinary people of Northern Ireland at worst. What do we have to do to get some attention?
lol, Mr Levee, you know my “strong feelings” and therefore might hazard a guess at what I might “fire across” there
Mr Levee,
Many thanks for the link and your kind comments with regard to my post! I appreciate your comments, and yes, Andrew and I like many people..here are a few from me;
Lady Thatcher; Rush Limbaugh; Matthew Parris; Melanie Phillips; Noel Thompson; the list goes on!
What we don’t care for is the odd half-wit liberal who bitches about ATW here but who lacks the bottle to say it to our face, or to expose their criticism to our soaring readership!
You know I often have felt that some liberals are just gutless cowards, and when I read some of the nonsense on this thread, I feel convinced of it.
In fairness David, when Jo has attempted to make her point on ATW she often meets with disgraceful abuse from some quarters. I prefer to encourage open-minded debate rather than mass-maul someone because they don’t subscribe to my beliefs.
I personally believe that you should both settle your differences and agree to disagree.
Anyway, the point of this post was about NOT supporting the OTR legislation. I note at this late hour that the bill has been passed. Congratulations anyway on taking affirmative action.
Yes as predicted the leglislation has been passed with a majority of 53. But the Bill still has to pass the Lords, and this is where it will fail. Shame on b-Liar Shame on Spin Fein. Don’t forget the innnocent victims.
Parnell:
Some of those supporting this legislation cried hypocritical and crocodile tears theatrically in the Commons and made me nauseous.
They personally and unapologetically associated with someone who created dozens of victims and their hypocrisy on this matter is utterly staggering. It is clear exploitation of victims for a political end, not a principled stance on a moral issue. I would reiterate again - when those opposing the OTR legislation will be satisfied with nothing other than the hanging of these fugitives, I opt for legislation which will at least see them own up to what they did.
Parnell,
I hope you are right, as this is nothing short of outright moral bankruptcy from a Government in tow to the terrorist wish list. Fortunately for Government it can rely on some useful fools who make pathetic excuses for supporting this OTR obscentity and then dress themselves up in self-righteousness to disguise their own moral affrontery.
In fairness David, when Jo has attempted to make her point on ATW she often meets with disgraceful abuse from some quarters
What I found irritating about said lady was that she was quick to dish it out but cried foul when it was returned.
Mr L:
I have no wish to carry on by proxy on your site the personalised vendetta which you see exemplified above and so will not respond to the unfounded attacks on me by your other visitors. Other visitors with an interest in my views may wish to check a series of comments on this subject on my own site. I am not in blogging for soaring readership of the associated financial incentives but simply because I have views which I believe are of value if not always, as here, consistent with even a majority of people’s views. I am, after all, ultimately, in a minority of one.
Yet you are happy enough to slag off David and Andrew’s site …. typical.
Listen folks, I posted with the intention of generating debate on the subject of the OTR legislation. I don’t want character assassination here, so I’m afraid any further personal abuse will be stricken from the records.
I’d like to say here and now that I respect and admire the writings of both David and Jo, for different reasons. Both are entertaining and lucid. And of course two such intelligent bloggers who hold strong opinions are inevitably going to clash from time to time.
Could I also say that I wish I regret that I can’t always comment on both your blogs. Time (or lack of) is preventing me from stopping by for a cup of tea and a natter!
Mr L:
I heard on H&M this evening that the legislation in its current form will NOT get through the Lords - but some form obviously will, perhaps some suggestions can be made as to the refinements which would come to pass as and when it does so get through? Perhaps sis-in-law maight like to comment ?
BTW, Mr L is that your pic above?
Very nice, you look vaguely familiar…
You may have seen me knocking about the City Centre Jo!
I was reading somewhere that personalizing your blog is important, and certainly more so when there’s me and the girls posting - sometimes folk assume it’s always me. Hopefully the photo will help avoid that!
Glad you like the photo, though bear in mind Photoshop can make anybody look good…
Mr Levee: Is that you or the unseen Bee Gee? LOL
Mr Levee: When were you in the Bee Gees?
Jaysus Parnell, it’s not that bad, is it? I hope you’re not referring to the dead one, BTW…
I am sick to the back teeth hearing about the oppostion to the otr bill being an exploitation of victims. It is bloody patronising. Do people think that we have no ideas of our own. I would have to say that I have never gone so far out of my way to be used.
and then dress themselves up in self-righteousness to disguise their own moral affrontery.
Perhaps Crazy Davey can whip up a post explaining why the tearful ‘Reverend’ McCrea has never disowned his good terrorist friend, the late Billy Wright.
Aileen: I hope I didn’t say that then! To be honest, I’m not sure how I stand on the ‘victims’ issue - not to be insensitive.
Certianly my focus on this is the terrible erosion of morality/decency that leads people to believe that murderers can saunter back and escape punishment. I’m also severely pissed off that once again us ordinary folk are cast aside in favour of one party’s narrow political agenda.
I’d like to see the inclusion of a clause that OTRs only get one bite of the Cherry. They are allowed one chance to plead guilty to crimes committed under the scheme - and subsequent conviction for involvement in ANYTHING criminal that has not already been confessed to in court would mean full service of any sentencing incurred.
So if X comes back and holds his hands up to an offence committed in 1978 but remains silent about an offence committed in 1980 which is later proven in court, X’s punishment for the 1980 offence is NOT covered by the early release provisions.
BTW Mr L - I too was wondering where I had seen you before - Dave Spart, Private Eye 1970’s ? Is Mrs L called Deirdre ?
Mr Levee: Absolutly not, rather the remark was made in jest.
I have not, am not and definatly will not pour scorn on musical ledgends. Anyway check your pulse, read the papers and act strange - that way, should anyone respone, it confirms you are very much alive. Did you ever write for Private Eye?
MR
That is is a sensible suggestion which I agree with.
The pleading of guilt may close the case but ONLY that case.
I have had some familiarity with drafting legislation in recent times. I can only say that it is mind-numbingly tedious and boring - the language is dreadful and the need to seal ALL possible loopholes results in terribly arduous technicalities.
[...] We’ve been having great debate about the On The Run legislation this week. [...]
Levee
not it wasn’t you
Glad to have your support for this “hypocritical and cynical *campaign* ”
dsepite the fact that “those opposing the OTR legislation will be satisfied with nothing other than the hanging of these fugitives”
which was a suprise to me as I oppose the death penalty
…and did you campaign for the imprisonment or dismissal of those soldiers convicted of murdering Peter McBride?
Do you have any record at all of interest in the victims of anyone killed by the security forces, who have been given a virtual amnesty in all but name, for the last 30 years? No?